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1993-11-22
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===============================================================
3rd IN A SERIES OF RESUME RTC'S
John Maihous and Michael Holzschu - Moderators
August 18, 1993 ---- 10 PM HOSB RTC
===============================================================
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Hi Glenn and welcome to the resume help line!
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Thanks, I can use the help
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Looks like the gang's all here!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> To everyone, we are not the worlds best typers. Mind works
faster than the fingers!<G>
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Well... are we ready to go?
<DEEANNE> Yes!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike and I are here to help.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Let's get started John....
<JOHN.MAIHOS> This is the third in a series of resume workshops..
<JOHN.MAIHOS> we have run here in WORKPLACE.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I'm am the personnel Director of a group of daily newspapers in
Massachusetts.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I've been in personnel for almost 10 years and in management for
8 years before that.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike will tell you about himself.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I am a principle in a company that specializes in the
personnel systems area....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> we have been in business for 7 years in the midwest....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> and when I had a real job... !5 years of first line, mid
and upper management.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Listen to him.. a "real" job!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> So why don't we field the first question?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Anything on your mind Glenn or Deeanne?
<DEEANNE> What is the best way to organize an attention-getting resume?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> A nice clean resume means a lot to me.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> White space...neat...easy to read typeface.
<DEEANNE> what do you mean?...should they be on a single sheet of paper?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I assume you have great things to say about yourself of course.
<DEEANNE> Certainly!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I like single sheet resumes in most cases.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> They are easy for me to scan.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I don't have all day to search for your qualifications.
<DEEANNE> Okay...I'm a teacher with 19 years experience teaching
journalism...I've had a couple of years experience in public relations before
this...I want to get back into PR....what do I emphasize?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Well...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I guess you have to try to relate your current experience to your
desire to get back into PR.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I'd want to know why you want to make the switch.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> (in your cover letter of course.)
<DEEANNE> Would that go on a resume or a cover letter/
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Is it for more money?
<DEEANNE> ah..slow response...I see.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Is it kid burn-out?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Is it a desire to get back to the workforce instead of education?
<DEEANNE> More money? I don't know...more creativity, more chance to develop
and show off =my= skills :)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If you can illustrate this, I would read your resume.
<DEEANNE> A desire to communicate with adults ;)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You've got a track record in education.
<DEEANNE> So...in the cover letter I should make a point to explain =why= I'm
seeking a change...not just tell my qualifications.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You can probably utilize this in the PR firm.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I would want to see a positive explanation on your part.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> PR is the NEXT step or something.
<DEEANNE> That's interesting...I had been trying to sell myself skill-wise, but
hadn't been explaining that point.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> What will you bring to my firm?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> How does the teaching exp. make you a better candidate.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Give it a shot.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Any other comments mike?
<DEEANNE> Do employers see that classroom experience can translate into
business experience?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Also what creative writing have you done? and why would
the employer need you.
<DEEANNE> Or am I fighting an uphill battle to start?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> To me, it depends on your development skills. (curriculum, etc.)
<DEEANNE> Shoot! I've =written= the journalism curriculum for three different
school districts!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I hope we've given you some new approaches!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> YES, that's important.
<DEEANNE> You certainly have! Thanks a lot!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You might also look into the NIE department in a newspaper
company. :)
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Any other questions Deeanne?
<DEEANNE> That's a good idea...I've been involved in the NIE projects of the
Houston papers.
<DEEANNE> No...I'll just listen for a while.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Good luck.
<DEEANNE> Thanks :)
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Glenn Do you have a question?
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Thanx
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Richard how about you?
<S.CARY> Glenn how is the job sit looking in Florida?
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Yes. I have two.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Go Ahead Glenn.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That looks nice!
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> I'm just getting on my feet in this room . . . a
number of the questions were answered by the previous person (Deeanne)
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Sean, there are jobs, if you look hard, but pay down
here, generally is low.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Welcome Sean!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K. Richard. You can learn a lot by just listening (or
watching).
<[Sean] S.CARY> I have noticed that! I am Leaving the USMC soon and moving to
the West Palm area.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Glenn go ahead with your questions.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> First, How do you deal in your resume and or cover
letter with a period of unemployment (needless to say, I'm not looking
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> any typing jobs
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Right!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Me neither!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Janet handles the typing classes!<G>
<JOHN.MAIHOS> The best way is to explain the period not employed.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> What did you do?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Were you job hunting?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Tell the prospective employer.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> No, I had to take time off to care for my parents who
spent a few years going into and out of hospitals
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Short periods of unemployment are very common these days.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> hospitals
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That's a very valid reason.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Personally, I would explain it that way.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Super, Thanks!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Others may tell you to mention it only if asked.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> I agree with you John.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> To me, it's better to offer the answer out front.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Second question?
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Well, Do I include a job in the resume, if I was fired?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It depends.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It depends on...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> how long you were employed there.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> 10 months
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Was it a very short term job?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If it was any more than a month, I would explain it.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Yes, it was temporary employment, not a career
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If 10 months, that needs to be discussed.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> OK
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Question on a similar subject (to Glenn's) While I'm
looking for work in TV
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I would tell the prospective employer...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John Doesn't it depend also what the termination was for?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> what you learned from that experience.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Thanks, I'll keep listening
<JOHN.MAIHOS> make it positive,.
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> production, I'm a temp . . . going to a bunch of
different sites. How do I
<JOHN.MAIHOS> And like Mike said...
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> (briefly) describe the experience I've gained at these
places?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> the background is important.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Ok Richard...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> first...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike, we might want to address Glenn's situation further in a
minute or so...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I think you are on the right track, Richard.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You are right John.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Give maybe one or two things that you picked up at each temp site.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Also, what you accomplished.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It will be good if you had the opportunity to see something to
completion
<JOHN.MAIHOS> at one of the temp jobs.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> ok?
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Thanx
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Anything to add, Mike?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Richard...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You also want to tailor your past experiences in the
temp....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> field to suit the perspective employer....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> If you were applying for a computer job.....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Having experience in the medical field as an orderly may
not apply....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> It could still be mentioned but should be relegated to a
less important aspect.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> (Weren't the temp jobs in TV production?)
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> As John ....
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> said earlier...DON'T clutter up your resume with too much
information...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> that the reader looses sight of who you are.
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> No, John. The temp work has been in everything but;
I'm trying to get into TV,
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> So true!
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> but I'm job hunting for ANYTHING right now . . . to pay
the rent, the GEnie
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If the temp jobs weren't in TV production....
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> bills, etc. Concerning stuffing a resume, how do I
keep a simple, clean resume,
<JOHN.MAIHOS> the I'd concentrate on ANY experience I have in the field or
education-wise.
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> but still be competitive when my only experience has
been in classwork + freebie
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> video productions?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> By freebie, do you mean intern program?
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Intern, class project, public access video, independent
training tape made
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That's great.
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> FOR some university program . . .
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Use it.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Do another one if possible.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It's called buying experience.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Richard You may want to look at some of the resumes that
have been uploaded. Janet what page is that on?
<[Janet] J.ATTARD> Page 375
<JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K. Richard?
<[Janet] J.ATTARD> type DIRECTORY if you forget the page number
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Got it.
<DEEANNE> Hmmm...would volunteer experience in your field be worth stating on a
resume...if you have 20+ years experience already?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> In my opinion, yes.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It shows that you are willing to "give" your time too.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That's a community service.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It still means something to our company.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> time
<DEEANNE> So all these newsletters I've been "volunteered" for count??? Yaaaay!
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> sorry about that...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I thought you were the referee for a minute!
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> What kind of resumes would you consider as "Counting?"
<JOHN.MAIHOS> What do you mean?
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Scuse me . . . I meant NEWSLETTERS!!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Oh
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> I've got resume-editing on my brain . . . job fair
coming up this weekend . . .
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Well, if it was some radical publication, I'd probably not
mention it. :)
<DEEANNE> In my case...I've done newsletters for my professional organization,
church, vegetarian society.
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Radical crazy . . . meaning a Star Trek Fan Club? (big
G)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> No. Star Trek's o.k. in my book.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I might say "variety of newsletters"
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> KKK would not make it!!!!!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> right.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Unless the job was with them.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Than you can't be a member of the NAACP!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Somehow I feel funny about mentioning the church newsletter and
the vegetarian newsletter.
<DEEANNE> Okay...should I include the fact I'm a GEnie RT assistant? Is that
worth anything? <GGG>
<JOHN.MAIHOS> There are some strange ideas out there.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Someone might equate these things with the wrong things.
<DEEANNE> Hmmm...so you think vegetarian church-goers are weird, huh?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Not me.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I just think some people on the hiring side have weird ideas.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> (I hate to say it, but it's true.)
<DEEANNE> Okay...I'll cool it on those things, then. :)
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I have no trouble mentioning if brought up though.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You are right on that one JOhn.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Get the job first.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That's your goal!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Now, can we get back to Glenn?
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Go!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That business on being fired.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Yes?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You had mentioned that you took time to care for your parents.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If that's the reason for being fired,
<JOHN.MAIHOS> go ahead and mention it.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Otherwise, I might want to think about it.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> What was the reason if you want to say?
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> No, That was well prior to my last job. I disagreed
with my employer's sales policy essentially, rip-off the customer.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> That can be worked with.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> I definitely don't plan on mentioning it, and if asked
at an interview, will be as tactful about as possible
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Yes. But obviously don't lie about it.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Mike any comments?
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Glenn...
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> yes
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You may be faced with the employer doing a reference
check...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> so not mentioning it leaves it in the hands of your former
employer...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> if the separation was less than amicable...
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> I hadn't thought about that...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> there could be a major problem...
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> I was very much less
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> I meant it was
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> No employer perspective or otherwise likes a surprise when
following up on an application ...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> or reference checks of perspective employees.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> John.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You said it Mike.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I would definitely mention it..
<JOHN.MAIHOS> and work with the answer.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> If you were selling cars...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> it's easy to tell someone you disagreed with the sales tactics.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Many people feel car salespeople are slightly manipulative anyway.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Hopefully the prospective employer...
<JOHN.MAIHOS> doesn't have the same sales tactics as the older one.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Actually selling was a minor part of the job (I was a
portrait photographer for a store chain, selling accessories was part of it.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> I see..the add-on sale.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> precisely
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> You may find out in the interview...
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> that the new employer has the same tactics and you
wouldn't want to work for them!
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> I figure to avoid any jobs [if possible] which involve
sales in the future
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Try to learn ahead of time what their sales practices are.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> o.k.
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> These jobs are just temporary, until I can get
recertified to flight instruct
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Anything else quick?
<JOHN.MAIHOS> It's nearing 11
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Great, Glennn
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Any other questions?
<[Glenn] G.WEINSTEIN1> Nothing from me, but thanks, I'm really glad I came
aboard tonight!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Drop in again!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> We'll be here.
<[Richard] R.BURKHART3> Same here; Thanks for the advice.
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Watch for announcements in WORKPLACE
<JOHN.MAIHOS> Check out out CATegories too.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Next week...same time ...same channel...The Workplace!
<JOHN.MAIHOS> You might find some interesting stuff up there.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Also check out our contest in cat 1 topic 12!
<[Janet] J.ATTARD> be sure to tell us any suggestions you might have for
additions to the Workplace, too
<JOHN.MAIHOS> O.K. See you folks.
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Thanks for being here John!
<DEEANNE> Thanks for all the great information!
<DEEANNE> I'm ready to go type up a new resume now!
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Goodnight to everyone! and thanks for dropping by!
<NASS> go for it Deanne
<NASS> Night Mike
<[Mike] M.HOLZSCHU1> Hope that we helped in some way! :)
<DIRECTORY.JL> I Got d\stock in them.. :)
== End ==